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Distance between stop line and primary signal

edited June 2009 in General
Can anyone please offer any advice as to the maximum distance they may allow between a stop line and its associated primary signal. I have a situation where I have a stop line set back due to vehicle turning movements, and I want to locate a pedestrian phase at the junction. The distance between stop line and studs is 7m and I would like to use the pole with the push button as the location of the primary signal to reduce street clutter. I have checked TD50/04 and other standards but there doesn't seem to be much guidance. Any advice please.

Comments

  • I had a similar situation and couldn't find any standards, however in the end I used a short pole for the pushbutton and ped indicator and still used a primary pole in the usual place. The main reason for this was concern that motorists would pull up to the signal to stop so negating the set-back stop line. With the pole and line together compliance is likely to be better.
  • I would support Ian in this view, as the observed behaviour of drivers is that they prefer to stop at the pole, not behind the stop line. Also, the police might not wish to prosecute someone who has not stopped at the stop line, if they didn't also pass by the red signal.
  • A number of years ago, I conducted an experiment after being asked a similar question and the conclusion was that 7 metres was the max distance required between the stop line and primary signal head before drivers began to stop beyond the stop line.
  • In "The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997" in Schedule 4 in clause 5 point 3 it states that " The maximum distance of 3 metres between a stop line and the nearer line of studs indicating the limits of the crossing shown in the diagrams in the diagrams in this Schedule may be increased to such greater distance, not exceeding 10 metres, as the traffic authority may decide" - page 22.

    Gafoor
  • My recollection is similar to Gafoor's (although I'm not blessed with his powers of recollection in this case!) as if asked I would have said 10m
  • The 10m maximum at stand alone crossings as per Gafoors post is there to ensure that vehicles clear the crossing before the green man appears, as the maximum vehicle /ped intergreen on a puffin pelican or toucan is 6 secs. On junctions I am not sure of any written guidance but to me 10m seems a sensible maximum value
  • However, some drivers would be observed stopping within the 10m gap between SL and signal head mainly because they would have time to see a red signal, during a signals change from LA to red, before passing the relative primary signal head and clearing the signal controlled junction.
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